Changes to OE

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  HcoutDopi on Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:56 pm

Oldwick wrote:Brandon, just a small suggestion about cadets.... I remember several newbies losing interest in OE due to the speed of the first ships.... I also remember the slowest first ship thinking ohhh how long does it takes to reach ss from system border?....Maybe could be increased a bit the speed in first ship...

I agree, maybe we can find out a clear upgrade path for newbies, they have 2 options, either they can get propulsion upgrade so they travel faster in system, or they can get faster jump time. that will make newbie grinding experience much better.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Steve austin on Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:08 pm

HcoutDopi wrote:
Oldwick wrote:Brandon, just a small suggestion about cadets.... I remember several newbies losing interest in OE due to the speed of the first ships.... I also remember the slowest first ship thinking ohhh how long does it takes to reach ss from system border?....Maybe could be increased a bit the speed in first ship...

I agree, maybe we can find out a clear upgrade path for newbies, they have 2 options, either they can get propulsion upgrade so they travel faster in system, or they can get faster jump time. that will make newbie grinding experience much better.
I like this we need to keep newbies

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Vaughn Chisholm on Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:18 pm

Brandon, thanks for the clarification. I like what you are trying to do. I'm thinking from a playability issue...maybe we could just make gov to gov system jumps free instead of jump gates (within a certain range, of course). I think that having to drive all the way across a system to the next gate or to make a multitude of jumps just to cross a sector might be a little tedious for new players and make them lose interest more quickly.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  HcoutDopi on Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:26 pm

Vaughn Chisholm wrote:Brandon, thanks for the clarification. I like what you are trying to do. I'm thinking from a playability issue...maybe we could just make gov to gov system jumps free instead of jump gates (within a certain range, of course). I think that having to drive all the way across a system to the next gate or to make a multitude of jumps just to cross a sector might be a little tedious for new players and make them lose interest more quickly.

I think what Brandon is trying to do is prevent the new players to leave the gov systems (with the handicap ship), not necessary trying to save their fuel expense.

i think the idea is good, if we can make new player not able to leave the gov systems, until they get 2nd ship (or upgrade of the existing ship), we would save a lot of trouble for new players lost in the galaxy.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Phil McCrackin on Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:47 pm

Although I appreciate where Brandon is going on the thoughts if the jump gates and keeping newbies from getting stranded, I like simpler solutions. Until they reach a certain class or ship type their jump screen only shows systems with space stations. They/we must leave the system to do planet scans and run combat jobs.
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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Vaughn Chisholm on Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:57 pm

Phil McCrackin wrote:Although I appreciate where Brandon is going on the thoughts if the jump gates and keeping newbies from getting stranded, I like simpler solutions. Until they reach a certain class or ship type their jump screen only shows systems with space stations. They/we must leave the system to do planet scans and run combat jobs.

Good idea

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Rikk Slinger on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:09 am

Rayjan Deja wrote:Should thrusters use up some sort of fuel to prevent constant bouncing around planets?
Although I wouldn't really like that, it makes sense, and it's an interesting idea...not sure many people would be a fan though. The fuel use for in-system movement would have to be very small in order for players to accept it.

I was thinking that if we wanted to do that, we could change the way thrusters work. You start out with a basic one (not great speed, not super slow; and fuel use by thrusters is average), and can choose different things in the market. By getting a faster set of thrusters, you also use more fuel in systems, while the slower thrusters use less fuel. Possibly a "best of both worlds" thing would be an IWS option? or just a really expensive BP and expensive to make/buy? Just an idea.

HcoutDopi wrote:I agree, maybe we can find out a clear upgrade path for newbies, they have 2 options, either they can get propulsion upgrade so they travel faster in system, or they can get faster jump time. that will make newbie grinding experience much better.
Great idea! Sounds good to me - like Steve said, it will help us keep newbies around.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Phil McCrackin on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:30 am

Sorry guys but thruster fuel usage is one of the worst ideas I have heard. Imagine having to refuel a newbie 3 ship lengths outside of a station because they ran out of fuel? They were just zipping around the system looking for their jump gate and are now stranded. Would you stick with a game that had these dynamics?

Think about it too. You are in your explorator scouting all the planets in a system. You could easily get stranded while buzzing around checking out the planets.
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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Rayjan Deja on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:32 am

Phil McCrackin wrote:Sorry guys but thruster fuel usage is one of the worst ideas I have heard. Imagine having to refuel a newbie 3 ship lengths outside of a station because they ran out of fuel? They were just zipping around the system looking for their jump gate and are now stranded. Would you stick with a game that had these dynamics?

Think about it too. You are in your explorator scouting all the planets in a system. You could easily get stranded while buzzing around checking out the planets.

I was thinking it would have a massive quantity. Like enough to keep zipping around consistently for an hour or so. But tbh I don't like the idea anymore lol

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Rikk Slinger on Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:43 am

Rayjan Deja wrote:
Phil McCrackin wrote:Sorry guys but thruster fuel usage is one of the worst ideas I have heard. Imagine having to refuel a newbie 3 ship lengths outside of a station because they ran out of fuel? They were just zipping around the system looking for their jump gate and are now stranded. Would you stick with a game that had these dynamics?

Think about it too. You are in your explorator scouting all the planets in a system. You could easily get stranded while buzzing around checking out the planets.

I was thinking it would have a massive quantity. Like enough to keep zipping around consistently for an hour or so. But tbh I don't like the idea anymore lol
Haha good cuz I wasn't a fan either

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Phil McCrackin on Wed Apr 11, 2012 2:44 am

LMAO@ Ray and Rikk!!!!

That's why we are throwing these ideas out. It's a think tank where we try to come up with ideas (feasible, easy to code) to enhance the game. Basically we are a volunteer feasibility study for the developers. We know that Paul and Brandon are watching the board so whatever we can come up with that they can say "now that's a good idea!" is just a bonus to our gaming experience if it can be implemented.

The one thing I keep at the back of my mind is that Paul and Brandon are not some big gaming company like Zynga with mega funds and time to dump into the game. Fantastical exotic ideas are great and who knows, there might be a way they can incorporate it. The main ideas they are going to look at seriously is the small tweaks we can propose to the already coded and existing system.
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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Thoth Amon on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:03 am

Colony landing pads please...that's all I can think off.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Ref Minor on Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:21 pm

HcoutDopi wrote:
Rayjan Deja wrote:A system which allows to copy a BP at normal prices but prevents the copy from been researched (Mean's been able to identify the copy visually) and a roll back feature which costs the base copy price to begin with but increases either exponentially or in a pattern as the mark increases.

interesting idea about copied BP can't be researched, like a readonly copy of BP. i like the concept, so you can provide copied BP to your factionmate (or even on the open market), but others can't research on it, and compete with ur next MK.

i think it's a great idea, not necessary we would make all copied BP un-researchable, but maybe as an option when you copy the BP, you have an option as the copied BP can be researched or not. (not really sure how hard this can get implemented)

I would like to see original BPs and Copied BPs as separate entities, you buy an original BP from the GVT and can research it as much as you want, you can at any point make a copies to manufacture from upto 100items (maybe less for big ticket items, haven't thought about the numbers). This will mean we end up with far more variety of products on the market rather than the identikit copy at each level products we had last time round.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Ref Minor on Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:23 pm

Phil McCrackin wrote:Sorry guys but thruster fuel usage is one of the worst ideas I have heard. Imagine having to refuel a newbie 3 ship lengths outside of a station because they ran out of fuel? They were just zipping around the system looking for their jump gate and are now stranded. Would you stick with a game that had these dynamics?

Think about it too. You are in your explorator scouting all the planets in a system. You could easily get stranded while buzzing around checking out the planets.
Lol, if they introduce that, I would almost be forced to bring dR W out of retirement.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Proteus Heaton on Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:39 pm

I would like to see a broader panel of abilities for station owners - Fuel cost, Tax rate on market goods, Adding resources to the station storage to reduce repair costs for docking pilots.... etc
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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Vaughn Chisholm on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:42 pm

Ref Minor wrote:
I would like to see original BPs and Copied BPs as separate entities, you buy an original BP from the GVT and can research it as much as you want, you can at any point make a copies to manufacture from upto 100items (maybe less for big ticket items, haven't thought about the numbers). This will mean we end up with far more variety of products on the market rather than the identikit copy at each level products we had last time round.

I don't care for that idea much. So limited runs on all BP? If you design something good, then you should be able to produce it as much as you want. It's already was a big investment and that would make it even worse. It was hard enough to recoup the cost of making new designs as it was. Copied blueprints should be copied blueprints. Is there magic ink used that makes it only readable in a factory for a limited time? If you want to give away, sell, or trash your work in a new design then you should be allowed to. Arbitrary restrictions only will peeve off the players who want to make stuff and drive off potential competition, leaving only a few dedicated or rich people with total market control. I would rather Brandon and Paul spend their time balancing and fixing overall mechanics of the game than make the game more complex. There needs to be a fine line between pleasing veterans and simplifying the game enough to attract a bigger player base.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Steve austin on Wed Apr 11, 2012 7:50 pm

The way to get more variety in the market is to have things like critical actually work having more of different guns and armour to research on so people can choose different specs to research, research and manufacture kept me a poor man it cost enough as it was making it more costly will drive more people off from doing it

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Ref Minor on Wed Apr 11, 2012 9:04 pm

Vaughn Chisholm wrote:
Ref Minor wrote:
I would like to see original BPs and Copied BPs as separate entities, you buy an original BP from the GVT and can research it as much as you want, you can at any point make a copies to manufacture from upto 100items (maybe less for big ticket items, haven't thought about the numbers). This will mean we end up with far more variety of products on the market rather than the identikit copy at each level products we had last time round.

I don't care for that idea much. So limited runs on all BP? If you design something good, then you should be able to produce it as much as you want. It's already was a big investment and that would make it even worse. It was hard enough to recoup the cost of making new designs as it was. Copied blueprints should be copied blueprints. Is there magic ink used that makes it only readable in a factory for a limited time? If you want to give away, sell, or trash your work in a new design then you should be allowed to. Arbitrary restrictions only will peeve off the players who want to make stuff and drive off potential competition, leaving only a few dedicated or rich people with total market control. I would rather Brandon and Paul spend their time balancing and fixing overall mechanics of the game than make the game more complex. There needs to be a fine line between pleasing veterans and simplifying the game enough to attract a bigger player base.

It would be cheaper than copying at each level to get a perfect item along with everyone else. You would retain the original when you made a copy and could continue to research, you could sell copies of the blueprint for people to manufacture items without giving away your blueprint forever.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Vaughn Chisholm on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:25 pm

Yes but you couldn't fall back to earlier designs if something goes wrong later. If someone wants to go to that expense to achieve 'perfect design', shouldn't they be allowed? Fix the worker pay issue with something that doesn't require constant monitoring by des/support and people will have to think long and hard before making that decision...but they will still have the ability to make that decision. I don't think we should neuter flexibility and potentially stifle innovation in order to prevent those of us who are obsessive-compulsive from working toward a preset goal

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Ref Minor on Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:45 pm

Vaughn Chisholm wrote:Yes but you couldn't fall back to earlier designs if something goes wrong later. If someone wants to go to that expense to achieve 'perfect design', shouldn't they be allowed? Fix the worker pay issue with something that doesn't require constant monitoring by des/support and people will have to think long and hard before making that decision...but they will still have the ability to make that decision. I don't think we should neuter flexibility and potentially stifle innovation in order to prevent those of us who are obsessive-compulsive from working toward a preset goal
It should be cheaper in my opinion and more dynamic, the old way you just threw cash at copying and then you won at research and manufacture. This way it would be a continual process as perfection could never be achieved

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Vaughn Chisholm on Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:45 pm

What's wrong with striving for perfection? It's wrong to place restrictions to prevent people from achieving their goals. I'd rather have the flexibility to chose for myself. If I want to gamble, I'll go to Vegas instead. At least you get free drinks.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  HcoutDopi on Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:57 pm

IMO, what we had in the past is fine, you can copy the BP (if it's not too expensive), those 100 mil BP means it's not copyable.

the only thing extra we need at this point, is readonly BP (for manufacturer), and i don't think we should limit how many items the BP can make the products, doesn't make too much sense to me, once u have a manu purposed BP, you can make as many as you want (if you have the mats), and researcher will not have to worry someone will get hold of his BP, research once, and have their name stamp on it.

if we go this route, i assume BP copy would be simple, when you try to copy a BP, u would have 2 options, either as normal BP, or as a manu BP (price might be different, I am not sure), and the manu BP will somehow clearly marked so people won't get confused when they look at the market.

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Phil McCrackin on Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:11 pm

Hcout,

What you listed is pretty close to what I had proposed.

In the real world designers plan what they are building inside of CAD programs. Once the get it to the form they feel is ready they put it through a translation so the CAM machines have the correct instructions on how to build the part.

Let's call what is in the CAD program a blueprint. Let's call the translated blueprint that is fed into the CAM machines a specsheet. Research colonies can only use a blueprint. Manufacturing colonies can only use a specsheet. These 2 delineations opens up a huge new market force. On the market we would need another category of specsheet. Included in the new category we would move all the base colony flatpacks and stations. The blueprints would only be researchable items.

How would this affect me? Say that I only wanted to do research? I would research an item, take it to a space station where I would have it converted to a specsheet for say 10K to the government whereupon I can also specify the number of items it can produce. I can then post the item on the market where a manufacturer can purchase it and do a production run.

The deal that the manufacturers make with the researchers add another economic factor/flexibility to the game with no risk to the researcher in having the blueprint pirated.

This also adds more flexibility to the IWS (if we are still calling it that) system. They used to sell us hulls and blueprints. Now they can sell a specsheet for something valuable like a DERP where they can franchise a player x number of hulls.

There are more huge possibilities but I'll let your brains run with it.
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Re: Changes to OE

Post  ruofe on Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:44 am

hey all. Smile

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Re: Changes to OE

Post  Vaughn Chisholm on Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:27 am

Phil McCrackin wrote:Hcout,

What you listed is pretty close to what I had proposed.

In the real world designers plan what they are building inside of CAD programs. Once the get it to the form they feel is ready they put it through a translation so the CAM machines have the correct instructions on how to build the part.

Let's call what is in the CAD program a blueprint. Let's call the translated blueprint that is fed into the CAM machines a specsheet. Research colonies can only use a blueprint. Manufacturing colonies can only use a specsheet. These 2 delineations opens up a huge new market force. On the market we would need another category of specsheet. Included in the new category we would move all the base colony flatpacks and stations. The blueprints would only be researchable items.

How would this affect me? Say that I only wanted to do research? I would research an item, take it to a space station where I would have it converted to a specsheet for say 10K to the government whereupon I can also specify the number of items it can produce. I can then post the item on the market where a manufacturer can purchase it and do a production run.

The deal that the manufacturers make with the researchers add another economic factor/flexibility to the game with no risk to the researcher in having the blueprint pirated.

This also adds more flexibility to the IWS (if we are still calling it that) system. They used to sell us hulls and blueprints. Now they can sell a specsheet for something valuable like a DERP where they can franchise a player x number of hulls.

There are more huge possibilities but I'll let your brains run with it.
/me likes

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Re: Changes to OE

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